My Girl Life Podcast - Jacquelyn James Interview

Maddie Taylor (00:00)
Okay, great, let's get started. So Jacquelyn, if you would, can you share a little bit about your childhood, where you grew up, et cetera?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (00:07)
Okay, I'm originally from back east to southeast mostly. I spent most of my time growing up in Virginia. There I went to school and attended college. And I've got family all up and down the Eastern Seaboard. So I spent most of my adult life on the Eastern Seaboard up until about 1999.

at which time I'm back here to California.

Maddie Taylor (00:32)
And did you. Okay,

And were you in a relationship then or what was your relationship,

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (00:42)
I actually was. I was in a marriage and I had two children. Connor was born in Virginia and Sydney was born here in California.

Maddie Taylor (00:52)
how long were you married and did your dressing start during that period or when did you start dressing?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (01:02)
Well, I've actually been married three times. you know, actually no one ever knew of my intentions, which was kind of hard. It was very difficult. You know, so I kept it pretty secretive. I didn't tell anyone, you know, that I was dressing sometimes even underneath my suit. And it wasn't a sexualized thing. Yes, it wasn't even a sexualized thing.

Maddie Taylor (01:26)
really, okay.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (01:30)
my desire to be who I truly am. so that was something that's been with me since my childhood. I've known my entire life and my entire childhood. I just had...

Maddie Taylor (01:34)
Mm -hmm.

Do know when you first realized that when you were old enough to realize kind of what you were feeling and what it may have meant? And I know we probably like all of us, we're not entirely sure what all this means. Some of us have figured it out more than others, but at what age did you kind of were aware, cognizant of how you were feeling?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (02:11)
I believe I was the age around five to seven, somewhere in that area. you know, I always wanted to be with the girls and do girl things. And I remember many nights when my mom and my dad would put me to bed and they would close the bedroom door. I would stare up at the ceiling and ask God, why was I this way? Why wasn't I a girl? Why wasn't I a woman? And, you know, I didn't understand that. I just knew that.

I had a different

visual of myself, you know, it was very difficult, you know, because

Maddie Taylor (02:47)
What was that like to feel something but not being able to process it and make sense of it? Did you feel like there was something wrong and not physically sick, but something wrong or what?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (03:03)
Well, you know, back in those days, I'm not going to age myself here, you know, there was a big stigma about any of this stuff. You know, didn't hear of it that often. And I come from a family with a background, you know, a lot of politicians, a lot of military family. So, you know,

Maddie Taylor (03:07)
Right.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (03:26)
the expectation to live in that kind of environment, you know, puts you in a position where you're not happy and you're actually angry, you know.

Maddie Taylor (03:36)
Yeah, that's extra pressure in an environment like that versus an inclusive type environment.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (03:39)
Yeah.

Yeah, I noticed that, you know, it was hard to maintain friendships. It was, you know, I was bullied constantly because I wore different clothes. Now I wasn't wearing female clothes when I was young. My parents wouldn't dare allow me to do that. But, you know, I didn't have the same type of clothes everybody else had. So I got teased about it.

Maddie Taylor (04:05)
Was it kind of like what a tomboy would wear, a girl, but just the opposite? So it wasn't completely, yeah.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (04:11)
Yes, very much so. Yeah, very much so. There was always some slight femininity to it. I wasn't always the strong kid, but I can tell you I was angry because I couldn't be myself. couldn't be, I wasn't happy as a child because this was over top of me all the time. And it didn't diminish.

Maddie Taylor (04:17)
Okay.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (04:38)
life just gets busy. And so you have responsibilities and you know, I had a responsibility to my family and, and, my children and, and to take care of them. So I did, I did that, to the best of my ability, but I was never really happy. And, know, sometimes I think about it. It's like, okay, you know, is this part of the reason why I've had failed marriages, you know,

I mean, I won't go into any details, but I was just never really happy. I was just going through the motions, doing what was expected of me.

Maddie Taylor (05:17)
were there any particular articles of clothing that you favored when you were dressing?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (05:24)
It's funny, hose. Hose was the easiest thing to hide and it made, I could feel it on my legs underneath my slacks, my pants. And so hosery was probably what I liked the most.

Maddie Taylor (05:39)
And whose were they? Whose hosiery were they?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (05:42)
my mother's at one time and my aunt at one time, my aunt's. Yeah. Yeah.

Maddie Taylor (05:51)
Really?

How did you get a hold of your aunt's hosiery?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (05:57)
They were traveling and they were spending several weeks at our home with their family and you know, we were doing a lot of like family vacationing things and They were staying in my room so I would go in and out of my room to get things, you know toys or whatever and one day I went in there and they were all gone and I tried them on But yeah, that was the easiest thing to conceal

Maddie Taylor (06:02)
Okay.

Do you have any idea why you took that very first step to put those on? Other than I guess the way you were feeling compelled you maybe even subconsciously to try them on, but were you consciously aware of why you took that first and you looked at them and thought, I'm gonna put those on. You know what went through your mind?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (06:44)
Yes.

I know it like it was today, because it made me feel more feminine. The feel of the hose against my legs, it just made me feel softer, gentler. I was comfortable in them.

Maddie Taylor (07:03)
It's funny you say that because the adjective that I always come up with is soothing. It was just soothing for lack of a better explanation.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (07:10)
Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Maddie Taylor (07:18)
Did you ever get caught?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (07:20)
it was about, I was in the, I think seventh or eighth grade. I had accumulated, several pair of panties and hosiery and I had them in the bottom drawer of my dresser in my bedroom. I came home from school one day and my dad had gotten off work early. and as I was coming in the door, he was coming out of my room.

which, you know, for any child, you know, their parent goes in your room and you're not there. It's like, Hey, what are you doing in my room? You know? and he obviously been looking for something, he found them and, he was very, very unhappy, very angry about it. And, yeah. So I was

Maddie Taylor (08:12)
Did you get punished or did he just, how did he shame you? Or did he shame you? Sounds like he did.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (08:17)
Well, you know, I don't, I mean, I didn't know if we were going to delve into this, but you know, I am, subject to from child abuse, you know, physically and emotionally, child abuse by both of my parents. So, getting in trouble at my house was pretty severe. you know, our, punishment was always very severe. So yeah, that day when he discovered those items, he told me immediately to

He doesn't want to ever see them in my room again for me to get rid of them. And he was telling me this as he had me up against the wall in the hallway, lifted me up off of my feet while holding me by the neck. so, so yeah, that was, you know, that was one experience that has just set in my mind,

Maddie Taylor (09:10)
so that must have been obviously very traumatic. I was going to ask you if there were any gaps between when you first started dressing. given that scenario, you just explained, did that cause you to stop doing it for a while? Or were there any gaps in time where you said, I don't want to do this as we all probably are familiar with purging, you know, where we throw all our our female clothes away and

Say I'm not gonna do this, I feel bad when I do it or people don't like it, it's not good. And then of course we all end up going back to it.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (09:45)
Yeah, there's never been any gaps. This is something that I've always known. This is who I am. And, I was raised in a home that that was shamed upon. Neither one of my parents are LGBTQ friendly whatsoever. So you just have to understand the upbringing part of that. But I never I never stopped. You know, nothing ever made me stop from that. It's just

I was very secretive and I could only do it, so often. Yeah, when they were gone, yeah.

Maddie Taylor (10:18)
Yep, when they were gone.

Did you ever come home knowing they weren't there and you were excited? You're like, okay, I get to do this this afternoon. They're not there.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (10:30)
of course. mean, any opportunity I had like that, would take advantage of it. I did have like a nightgown and a robe and a negligee that I would put on, know, wear Trump around the house, know, wear around the house and be listening to music. But I was always so careful, you know, looking out the window every five minutes to make sure that, you know, not even the mailman can, you know, come up to the door.

Maddie Taylor (10:32)
Yeah.

Right.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (10:59)
You

Maddie Taylor (11:00)
you have favorite articles of clothing that you would go to every time or did you mix it up? Say, okay, today I'm gonna try this and I'm gonna try something different.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (11:10)
You know, I would say this. I didn't have many things, feminine things, know, anything with female clothing for quite a while. It wasn't until I was like, say, I think seventh or eighth grade is when I actually started having them in my room because I thought they were safe at that point. But I've always had undergarments, women's undergarments.

Again, it's not because it made me feel sexy, but it made me feel feminine, but that was the easiest to conceal. Having a dress or something like that, there was no way I could have that. I couldn't hide.

Maddie Taylor (11:43)
Mm

So being able to conceal something kind of drove the articles that you would wear. Okay. Makes sense. Jacquelyn, the question is, you know, why you dress? And I think you've kind of answered it. And yours is a little more clear cut than a lot of cross dresser friends and myself. I think it's a little more muddy.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (11:56)
Absolutely. Absolutely, yes.

Maddie Taylor (12:15)
but yours really came from gender dysphoria. So there was a driving force to why you dressed and it was the gender dysphoria. were in the wrong body.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (12:28)
Yes, I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria back in 2016. And at that point, I'd already come out to my wife. She already knew at the time. And she was actually very supportive at the time. She would even assist me in building up my wardrobe and making sure that I had the right makeup. she would actually...

participate in these events that I would go to. So I had that support there, you know, once I was diagnosed with the gender dysphoria. for me, it wasn't really cross -dressing, but even though it just was because I was still living my...

Maddie Taylor (13:10)
Right, to you it wasn't, yeah, to you it wasn't cross -dressing even though it might have been the same acts, but it wasn't cross -dressing for you. was being the person that was inside. was expressing the person that was stuck inside.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (13:17)
Well, everybody around you.

absolutely. And I don't want to speak for everyone, but I know that feeling is when you look in the mirror for the first time with your makeup and your wig and you're dressed and it's just a wow moment. inside, I was full of joy. But on the outside, everyone just saw me as a cross dresser because I couldn't come out to them yet. I wasn't ready.

I had children that I had to take care of and be responsible for, and I certainly didn't want to put them in a position to be bullied. So I waited until they were all old enough to have a better understanding.

Maddie Taylor (14:08)
That must have been so frustrating.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (14:12)
It was, and I tell you what, Maddie I look back at it today and I see who I am now, who I've always been, that person that's been shuttered for most of her life. But I look back at my past and I've had many successes and I've had amazing family, my children.

But I was angry, you know, because I couldn't.

Maddie Taylor (14:39)
How many years, how many years was it from the time you're like, if I could wave a magic wand, I would come out right now, till you actually did because of these reasons you talked about, you know, when, when you're older and because of the family and the kids, you know, that's a long time to be that frustrated and angry.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (14:58)
Yes. And I will say this, you know, I back in, I think it was 2006, 2006, 2007, I almost came out at that point. I was, you know, single at that, at that moment. And, know, I'm like, you know, this is my opportunity. but then I met someone and, you know, we, we kind of jelled pretty quickly. And so there again, you know, Jacquelyn had to be put on the, on the side burner.

2007 was my first opportunity. I missed it because I wanted to be in this relationship. And throughout those years, my wife at the time, I had discovered that she was very open -minded, very accepting. She taught me quite a bit about those things.

that's when I felt safe, you know. And I mean, I'll tell you later on how all that occurred when when she found out how she found out. But I really think, you know, that. A lot of people are in the same situation that I've been in where they can't be their moth off in Excel, they can't be true, true to themselves and true to everyone else because they feel shame.

Maddie Taylor (16:25)
But when you say, right. And when you say you can't be your true self, you're still dressing, but that's not that's not your true self, which you've you've taken action to make that happen. And we'll talk about that. But so you got to express yourself how satisfying was that in the big picture? Let's say let's say you're 100 % satisfied now or greatly satisfied now because of your transition.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (16:26)
Are they scared to losing things?

Correct, yeah.

Maddie Taylor (16:54)
How much satisfaction did you get with just the dressing being just part of it?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (17:00)
You know, for me, it was like a tease. You know, I could be Jacquelyn for a moment, whether it be a night out or, going to one of many events that take place all across the country. you know, but it was, I knew it was only temporary. knew that I couldn't go home and walk in the door or walk in my neighborhood and be Jacquelyn without ridicule. our shame.

Maddie Taylor (17:05)
Mmm.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (17:24)
are feeling that's the shame because that's the way I was raised to feel.

Maddie Taylor (17:28)
You know, it's funny, Jacquelyn, when I go out dressed, when Maddie goes out, when I come home, I can't wait to get out of Maddie's clothes. You know, it's the old proverbial, can't wait to take your girdle off and you get home from work. But that's really what it is. And it's just such a different experience when you're coming home and you're disappointed that you have to take the stuff off and...

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (17:55)
Right, right. yeah, the way I felt was, you know, was so, so hard cause I was seeing my other transgender sisters at these events or these, you know, night out adventures. And I would just be in awe of them, how they were living in their true to themselves and how happy and real they were. And I just wanted to be like them.

Because to myself, I already knew that's who I was, you know?

Maddie Taylor (18:23)
So it was a double edged sword. You were happy to get out and be able to express yourself for a few hours or even a few days at these events that you've gone to, a double edged sword in that, it made you feel frustrated and it was all, like you said, teasing.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (18:38)
Yeah.

Maddie Taylor (18:41)
Interesting. Well, let's talk about the transition. When did you first say to yourself, all right, I'm going to come out and I'm going to start the transition? Or were those two different dates kind of far apart? In other words, did you come out in a certain way and then the transition, the surgeries and the things that you've had done?

Was there a time period in between those or was it pretty simultaneously?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (19:15)
Well, you know, like I said, in 2007 or 2006, I almost came out then and, I'd already considered doing transitioning. you know, I didn't know much about the whole full transitioning, but, you know, not many people do until they first start down that road. you know, to tell you how it came out is I, I, my, wife at the time, we were good friends with a neighbor who lived across the street from us.

And our families would spend a lot of time together back and forth. And so one Saturday, my wife went over to our friend's home and spent most of the day over there. And all the kids were gone. I went across the street because it was about four or five o 'clock. I went across the street about dinner time. And they were back in the studio doing makeup and doing like photo shoots and with all the different dresses.

the lady across the street was a model. So she had a lot of really extravagant clothing and jewelry and things like that. And so we decided to all just the three of us to have dinner together because all the kids were gone, her husband was gone, and they wanted to continue doing their their photo shoot. And so they're like, you know, let's have dinner together and hang out. And we did. So we're listening to music. We have a couple of drinks and stuff. And my neighbor friend

Maddie Taylor (20:12)
Mm

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (20:40)
All of sudden went up to her wardrobe, picked out a dress and threw it over to me and said, here, put this on. And I'm like, what? You know, like, what are you talking about? And I'm sitting in front of my wife at the time and my wife turned and looked at me. goes, go ahead. You know, you want to, it's okay.

Maddie Taylor (21:05)
Wait, was this the first time your wife acknowledged and okay, all right, wow.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (21:07)
Very, yes, this is the very first time. Yeah, I was just wowed myself.

Maddie Taylor (21:14)
You know you want to. Why do think she said that?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (21:17)
You know, maybe she already knew.

Maddie Taylor (21:18)
That's an odd thing to say for a wife to tell a husband, you know you want to, so she must have. Yeah, what do you think?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (21:25)
I think maybe she might have suspected something or knew or maybe I'd given the signals. Yeah, because she was very supportive. And I will tell you, I got up and I put that dress on. No wig, no makeup, you know, I just put the dress on and it felt amazing. And we didn't leave till like five o 'clock in the morning. So we'd been there like 10 or 12 hours because we were having such a good time.

Maddie Taylor (21:30)
obviously.

Hahaha

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (21:53)
And this whole time I'm dressed in it, you know, and it was just.

Maddie Taylor (21:57)
What did that feel like? That must have felt amazing that you could, you almost had their approval now to do that.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (22:04)
The validation, the validation was amazing. It was exciting because I saw the door opening for me, you know.

Maddie Taylor (22:13)
you feel the guilt? And again, I'm assuming you had some guilt from dressing. I certainly did. Did the guilt go down quite a bit or all the way down when they initiated it and basically said they approve of it by asking you to do it and then you spent hours and obviously they were good with it. Did you feel the level of guilt go way down?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (22:42)
You know, I was in such that.

Maddie Taylor (22:43)
Like I can do this, I don't have to feel guilty anymore or what?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (22:46)
Well, yeah, exactly. You're exactly right. was in the moment. I was enjoying that moment because I didn't know if I'd ever get that opportunity again, knowing in my mind without saying anything to anyone, knowing that, I want to do this now. I mean, that was kind of the kickoff for me. right after that, it started to grow pretty quickly.

my neighbor would bring dresses over. She would actually go to the thrift store or to like Kohls and buy things and come running across the street, with these dresses, cause she was a stylist. She was a model. knew, you know, she knew fashion. And so she started giving me all of these items of clothing. And it was amazing how supportive.

Maddie Taylor (23:33)
It's funny how women love to dress us up like they're life size real life dolls.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (23:39)
It's so true, really true. And then once my kids found out, one of my daughters would do my makeup. She would get involved and she would even pick out some of my clothes at times. It was just amazing. It was very... it is. All the guilt you asked about, there wasn't any at that point at all. I I felt...

Maddie Taylor (23:52)
it.

That must have been a great, great feeling.

But there was still frustration because that was only part way for you, for your journey. And they didn't know that, but you knew that, right?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (24:14)
I knew that they didn't know that. But again, that was the kickoff for me. That door opened and it was, I was not gonna allow it to shut. And so I gradually grew into Jacquelyn as a, here I am a real person, know.

Maddie Taylor (24:16)
Yeah.

I know firsthand that your wife approved of it and even embraced it, right? But was she taken a little back by the fact she thought maybe you guys were just playing around, thought it was kind of fun and had no idea this would morph into, and I'm not talking about the transition yet, because I know she did not probably know about that, but.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (24:37)
Very much,

Maddie Taylor (24:55)
Was she thinking, well, we're just doing this for fun. It's going to be kind of a side thing versus to where it went. Do you think she was surprised by that?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (25:04)
I wouldn't use the word surprise. I knew she was taken aback by it. know, again, we'll talk about the transition in a few minutes, but during that time period, before, I had made the decision, I mean, I had already made a decision. I was going to do this. But I, yeah, I just did not share it with anyone. And I didn't actually know, you know, I just knew that I'm moving forward and going forward with this. And I mean, it became a,

Maddie Taylor (25:18)
It was just a matter of when. Yeah.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (25:30)
very regular thing for me to the point where I was dressing up at home. you know, if she would go off to work, I would travel out of town every other week. And the weeks I were home during the day, I'd be by myself because the kids are off to school. She would be at work and she'd be texting me. She goes, you should get dressed up. You should put some makeup on, you know, and I would.

Because I think she validated me and she supported that. She saw that I was happy.

Maddie Taylor (25:57)
Do you?

I was going to say, do you know why she was so motivated to encourage you to do it? Was she doing it because, like you said, because she knew it made you happy or maybe she was enjoying it in a way?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (26:14)
I think she, I think of both. really do think both. I think she saw that, you know, I was becoming a much happier person, much calmer, you know, gentler person, because I was getting now a better understanding of, you know, women's behavior and emotions and feelings. And, you know, all I can say is that she didn't expect the surgeries.

Maddie Taylor (26:24)
Mm -hmm.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (26:46)
And she was doing this out of support and love for me, I believe. And I think she was enjoying it at the same time. we built a lot of friends within this community as did she, which I found was absolutely amazing. I mean, you know, yourself, and we'd go to these events, whether in Vegas or Sacramento or LA or whatever. she would, she would come along and you know,

Maddie Taylor (26:59)
Mm

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (27:12)
that you had the cross dresser spouses there that would come along. Yeah. Yeah.

Maddie Taylor (27:15)
She was right in there. She loved it. She took it all in and she didn't just tolerate it. She embraced it.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (27:24)
she really did. so when I was watching this evolve with her, I'm like, OK, it's time now for me to start that evolution.

Maddie Taylor (27:35)
You felt empowered now that I can do this now. And okay, so that's a great lead in. Let's talk about the transition. And I just wanted to kind of start it off with how do you diagnose gender dysphoria? What was that process like?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (27:55)
So, you know, when that door, again, back to the door opening, when that door opened, I became Jacquelyn in that moment. And I don't even think I had my name Jacquelyn yet. My daughters and my wife actually came up with that name. Yeah, they actually gave me my name, which I'm so appreciative for because I'm Jacquelyn. Yeah, absolutely.

Maddie Taylor (28:12)
they did, okay.

another stamp of approval.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (28:23)
You know, to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria and to even start your transitioning, you've got to go through a bunch of counseling. I had to go see my medical doctor, my primary care physician. We spent many, many appointments in her office, actually, talking about what it is to transition and all the

all the medical stuff that comes along with this. And my wife would be sitting right there, you know. And I remember the day that they gave me my first hormones. They gave me my prescription for me to start my hormone treatment.

Maddie Taylor (29:04)
when you're diagnosed with gender dysphoria, is that like a diagnosis of another thing a doctor or a psychiatrist, psychologist would diagnose that's kind of official? Or is it kind of a nebulous thing where the doctors think it's true, you think it's true.

but it cannot be completely quantified. Is that accurate? And how do they get to the actual diagnosis? Because the diagnosis means now you can, it has an effect on what surgeries you can get. has an effect on insurance, correct? So.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (29:42)
Absolutely.

Yes. And I don't know what, you know, every state's different. I, you know, I live in California and yeah, state by state. Yeah, it is a state by state. So for instance, California, when you're diagnosed with gender dysphoria, when you are professionally diagnosed, now it diagnosis doesn't just come from a doctor or counselor or psychiatrist. They actually talk. I mean, they, they work together. They, they have meetings about.

Maddie Taylor (29:53)
So it's state by state. did not know that.

it's a collaboration.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (30:16)
Yeah, yeah, and so there's no blood test that you can take and say, you're gender dysphoria. You know, it's.

Maddie Taylor (30:21)
Yeah, you're positive for gender dysphoria, Jacquelyn, congratulations. Is there a piece of paper or a certificate or, you know?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (30:32)
No, no, you know, there's no certificate that says you've been awarded, you know, gendersysphoria. But you get the diagnosis and once that diagnosis is reached by the team, the medical team and the psychologist, then that's when they introduce to you, okay, how do you want to proceed? Do you want to transition or do you want to stay in this, you know, frame and

and live the rest of your life out knowing that you have this gender dysphoria. know, speaking only for myself, I already knew, I guess I've known all my life and these were my opportunities. So, going back to when they issued my hormones for the very first time, my wife was sitting there and she didn't say anything. She, she found it, I found her to be very supportive. But, you know,

Maddie Taylor (31:11)
Mm -hmm.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (31:29)
Yeah, there's no like award or certificate. know, it's just when they when you're diagnosed with that. A lot of things come your way, you know, with the insurance company now, you know.

Maddie Taylor (31:40)
But don't you need a, don't you, I've heard of people having to get a letter from this doctor or that doctor or this psychologist or psychiatrist. You need a letter before you can get procedures done and insurance and that those letters are not that hard to get if you know how to work the system. are those things true? Do you think?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (32:04)
So, yeah, I don't know about working the system. All I know is that once you have that diagnosis, okay, once you're labeled with that diagnosis, they will give you letters so that you can proceed to start your actual physical transitioning. My insurance company requires to have two letters from a doctor's and two letters from psychologists.

Maddie Taylor (32:34)
That's what I've heard about.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (32:35)
Yeah, even though you've got gender dysphoria, you still have to have those letters. So every surgery that I have had in the recent past, I've had to have these letters and these letters expire within one year. So, if you go in between surgeries that are here farther than year apart, then you're going to be required to get new letters.

But if you do it within 12 months of each other, then those letters are stay valid.

Maddie Taylor (33:04)
Okay, Jacquelyn, how easy or difficult do you think it is to fool the people you need to fool to get those letters?

And I don't mean fool like, know, I don't have any gender dysphoria and I just want, you know, I'm just wondering because and this is just is just word of mouth and rumors that I've heard from people who have gone through the process. I don't know if I'm getting accurate information or not, but, you know, some people say, well, if you say the right things, you can get your diagnosis and get your letters.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (33:18)
No, I get what I

So who's fooling who at that point then is my question back to you could be, think about it. Why would you go to a doctor, go to see a psychologist, invest your time and money into something like that just to get a diagnosis to fool who you, I don't understand who would you be fooling?

Maddie Taylor (33:46)
It's a great thing.

Can I give you a theory? And I don't necessarily buy into this theory, but it is a theory. from experience I've seen, and I'll tell you why, I've seen some people, because I went to a transition group every week. And to be honest, I just did it to be able to go out and be social. And then everybody would go have drinks at the bar across the street. But by being there, I learned a lot.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (34:05)
Please.

Maddie Taylor (34:32)
And I saw all the different, I wasn't transitioning, but I saw the different people and I will say, and this is personally my opinion, but I saw some people that I think were more running from their boy life than they had true gender dysphoria. And by transitioning to a woman to whatever degree and even the cross -dressing,

It's exciting. It's thrilling. It's a high. It gives you something to look forward to. It's creative. mean it and then you get a lot of attention and it just creates this thing in your life that becomes for a time positive. And if you don't like who you were before, not because you're in the wrong body or the wrong gender, you just didn't like yourself or your life. It seems to me that there's some people that were running from their boy life.

And going pretty far. So to answer your question, I do think there's people that were willing to go down that path. And I, I always kind of thought in my mind, well, you're jumping from the frying pan into the fire because it's not an easy life. And you can attest to that. I've seen it with my friends that become, know, becoming a girl and trend and transitioning. You know, it's, it's, it's, a lot of challenges dating.

work life, etc. So I just wonder, know, the people that want to do that, that don't have, know, experiencing you, your gender dysphoria is so real and so has been explained to me so intricately that I've seen a different level of it than with some of these people I experienced. Does that make sense?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (36:26)
It does make sense and I would agree with you.

Maddie Taylor (36:28)
Do you think that theory has any truth to it with some people?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (36:35)
I would, yeah, yes, I do. I really do. You know, I'm not about judging people and you know, where they're at in their lives and you know what, yeah, no, no, then, But I have seen and experienced some of those individuals that are milking the system for whatever they can get for it. And yeah, I would see that, you know,

Maddie Taylor (36:45)
Right, and this is all in my head. I'm not, yeah, I'm gonna embrace everybody and whatever you're doing, it's fine, it's your business.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (37:05)
it makes sense what you your theory makes good sense.

Maddie Taylor (37:09)
And I'm guessing it's a very small percentage. Like you said, it's a lot to go through if you're just kind of unhappy with your boy life or with your life in general. But I don't think it's representative of the people going through gender dysphoria, who have gender dysphoria.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (37:25)
Yeah. Well, I can tell you this for myself. I loved, you know, what my past is from, you know, I mean, I've had an amazing, amazing life and, and I'm even living a better life now. I can say I've never been this happy in my entire life. It's, it's almost euphoric. You know, I wake up every day and I'm excited to, to, you know,

be Jacquelyn and to be out in public and to spend as much time as I can with people. know, a lot of things change when you start hormones and a lot of people don't understand what hormones actually do to your brain and your body. And that's where.

Maddie Taylor (38:11)
Can you help explain some of that? Can you put some of that into words?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (38:15)
Well, your synaptic nerves reconnect. know, as of today, I have basically, I tell people this all the time as a joke, but I have both playbooks. I know how men think. I know how they respond, their emotions. I now know how women think and feel and what their emotions are like. And I will say this, if men would let the women rule the world, the world would be lived at peace and prosperous. But, you know,

I have so much respect for women and what they go through every day to be them, to be themselves. And that's what we all strive for, you know? And I'm just pushing the buttons to make things happen for me, the way I feel that my life should be like. But being on hormones, it really does. takes, I mean,

Maddie Taylor (39:08)
Mm -hmm.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (39:15)
I've been on hormones now six years.

Maddie Taylor (39:20)
Will you be on hormones the rest of your life? Okay.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (39:22)
I will be. Yes, I take a lot of hormones every day.

Maddie Taylor (39:28)
Because if you stop taking the hormones, your body will regress back to male.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (39:35)
Yes, your brain won't. Your brain won't. mean, changes made in your brain are permanent. Like a lot of these surgeries are permanent. There's no going back once you step through that doorway. And transitioning means different for different people. I know people who have just gotten top surgery and they're perfectly happy with that. And I know people had gone and gotten facial surgery only.

Maddie Taylor (39:38)
hormones

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (40:03)
you know they're completely happy with themselves. So transitioning means different levels for different people you know.

Maddie Taylor (40:09)
Sure. What procedures have you, can you share what procedures you've had done?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (40:15)
Lord, I have gone through many surgeries to get where I'm at today. So I've had both bottom and top surgeries. I've had, I've actually had two bottom surgeries. Sometimes it takes three surgeries to get the desired results. And we're actually discussing that now with my surgeon. And I said I had top surgery, that was my first surgery I had done.

And then I've had FFS, which is feminine facial surgery. I have a second go around with that coming up here soon. So I think I've got one, two, I've got like four more surgeries to go through

Maddie Taylor (40:55)
there's a risk of...

especially with the facial, well, I guess with any of it, where each time you do it, you're like, well, I wanna do this a little bit better and like it just becomes a never ending cycle. You're searching for perfection and you just, it's a slippery slope.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (41:16)
You know what? My surgeon says that. I've got one of the best surgeons in the country. He's very well known. Dr. Alexander Sinclair out of Beverly Hills. He's an amazing, amazing person, a friend, but he knows what he's doing and I trust him impeccably. He's done all of my surgeries. So he knows me and my body inside out.

So, you know, I go along with what he recommends, you know, but yeah.

Maddie Taylor (41:52)
Has he given you any pushback on anything like, are you sure you wanna go there? As he talked about the slippery slope.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (41:57)
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was just getting ready to say that. He, I remember one day after right before I was leaving his office, he turned around and he walking out and we were walking out the door and he turned around, looked at me, he goes, nobody's perfect. And I, and I, and it made me stop and think about that. Am I trying for perfection or am I just trying to be happy with me? you know, I don't see.

my previous self anymore when I look in the mirror. But we all see those little things that we want to fix or change, whether it's a chin lift or a facelift or a butt surgery, a BBL. I am right now, I'm complete. I don't have to do any more surgeries if I don't want to.

Maddie Taylor (42:34)
Mm -hmm.

looking back, is there anything you would have not done?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (42:55)
no, no. Everything was very planned. mean, this all was done with intent, intentional. Every surgery, even the staging, the time lapse between the surgeries, everything was planned to the letter. And there is not a single surgery that I regret having. Like I said, for the first time in my life, I can actually look in the mirror and look

directly in the mirror back at myself and say I love you because I am happy where I am who I am and you know what I'm doing

Maddie Taylor (43:32)
Can you describe when you look in the mirror, dressed or undressed, when you look in the mirror, describe that feeling?

that you have now that you are pretty much where you want to be and the person you want to be.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (43:50)
I can say it with one word, it's calming.

Maddie Taylor (43:55)
calming me.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (43:56)
Yeah, I mean, I look in the mirror and it's like, I see me now. You know what mean? I see, I see who I should have been.

Maddie Taylor (44:03)
Mm -hmm.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (44:09)
I've been all my life, but I just identify differently. Yeah, I would say call me.

Maddie Taylor (44:16)
This is going to be, this might be a tough question. Is there any way you can describe to somebody like me or to anybody who does not have gender dysphoria, can you describe

how that feels when you look in the mirror and do you do you see yourself and then picture a different person or look at the same time or do you just look at that person and go I don't know that's not me but you've you've you've grown up with you and looked in the mirror a thousand times that's you but it's not really you it's trying to get in the head and describe what that feeling is like because

I think it's fascinating.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (44:59)
You know, all I can say is when I look in the mirror, dressed or undressed, you know, just getting out of the shower and I see my body as it is today.

I, it's like, I, it's hard to describe how you feel, but the satisfaction, the calmness, the, the just feeling within yourself, you know, it's like, here I am. I've arrived. I'm, I'm finally here. You know, I've been reborn, this is who I knew I was my entire life. And now I'm actually getting to live that life. And.

It is absolutely amazing. It's amazing.

Maddie Taylor (45:39)
That's awesome.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (45:41)
No, I said, I have more friends than I've ever had in my life that I hold on to. And, and it's, you know, it's not about quantity, it's about quality. And the friends that I have are true quality friends. Because if they can look at you and accept you for who you really are and not judge you for, you know, going through all this transitioning and stuff, maybe, you know, they're calling on me and they're saying, Hey, let's go out, let's hang out. Let's do this. It's, it's amazing.

you know, for me.

Maddie Taylor (46:08)
Well, I get the same thing with Maddie. you know, as a in my boy life, I've had plenty of friends and I'm very social and, you know, I like my life. But when I'm Maddie, people gravitate towards you more. They pay more attention. They... And I've tried to psychoanalyze this.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (46:12)
Yeah.

Maddie Taylor (46:35)
thousand different ways is it because I'm an anomaly? Because this is mostly in a environment, a barbecue, a bar, wherever, and I'm maybe the only cross dresser or trans person in the entire place. And I'm like, am I just an anomaly? Are they curious? Do I just stand out? And human beings, when somebody stands out, whether that's because they have...

You they're really tall or they're really short or something that stands out. Does that cause humans to gravitate towards that person? And then I, then I think if you, if you follow it up with personality and, and, just good social skills, then you can create that bond. that initial. Intrigueness that initial attention. I, I just wonder why so much of what you're describing and what I'm describing happens when you dress up or when you.

or a woman. It's fascinating to me.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (47:34)
Yeah, I can tell you it is. It is. And I will say this, you're not an anomaly anymore. Okay. I'm not an anomaly anymore. Especially where I live. I'm certainly not. I mean, I'm out in public every day. I'm in the public eye every day. You know, I do so many events here in the city and elsewhere. So

Maddie Taylor (47:46)
Right, right.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (47:59)
I live unafraid, but...

Maddie Taylor (48:02)
I also think you, when you feel good about yourself, you throw out that energy. People feel it. then I think people are, maybe that's it. maybe they gravitate towards that energy, that positive energy and that feeling. I will say probably the one most common compliment I get other than your outfit or your shoes or whatever your looks is my confidence and

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (48:08)
yes.

Very true.

Maddie Taylor (48:28)
I think confidence draws people in. So maybe that's part of it. Maybe we feel more confident. Maybe some people who are introverted when they're dressed, they become extroverted and people are attracted to that.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (48:43)
You know what? And everything you just said is very true and valid. you know, the confidence that you have is the energy that you're putting out. People are attracted to that energy. And I have to have been told that, quite often is, know, I've got girlfriends that come up and go, I love your energy, you know? And, I mean, I have, I have many, many girlfriends and CIS girls that I go out with, hang out with, we go shopping, whatever we do, but.

to have that validation, I'm not an anomaly to them. I'm just one of the girls to them. But you know, what people don't realize

Maddie Taylor (49:18)
Right, and for the audience, I'm going out a couple times on the weekend and that's it. You're living your full life as a woman. apples and oranges, is some overlap and some similarities.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (49:32)
Absolutely, is. Absolutely. And like you were talking about the person, the introverted person, they put on a dress and some makeup, and they're totally, totally a different person. They're outgoing, they're, they're social, you know, because they're, they have that, that relief, you know, I have a lot of friends that are cross dressers, such as yourself. And, they love their boy lives too. You know, they love both, both.

their boy life and the girl life. And there's nothing wrong with that. Everybody can live to each their own, you know, and just be happy. and you can't look to other people to make you happy. You have to make yourself happy. And that's all I've done is I've made myself happy.

Maddie Taylor (50:16)
That's awesome, it's such a great story. I'm gonna stop here and we're gonna play a game called Two Truths and a Lie, which I intend to do on every podcast. so ladies and gentlemen, Jacquelyn is going to make three statements. Two of them are gonna be truthful statements and one of them is gonna be a lie.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (50:28)
boy.

Maddie Taylor (50:40)
Okay, so Jacquelyn is going to give us two truths and a lie. And the first person that emails me what they think the lie is to my email at maddie, sometimes at gmail .com. That's maddie, sometimes at gmail .com will win a really cool prize.

Jacquelyn, go ahead and give us two truths and a lie and they are not particularly in that order.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (51:03)
Okay, let's see here. I've been a top executive for the Walt Disney World Company in Orlando, Florida. I have been to 12 wild side events, which are held in Vegas every year in May. And I have met and have built a friendship with RuPaul.

Maddie Taylor (51:26)
Okay, there you have it. Top executive with Disney, been to 12 wild side events in Vegas, and met and friends with RuPaul.

Maddie Taylor (00:00)
Okay, so we're going to pause here, Jacqueline, because it's time for our segment called Girls Want to Know. That's where I reach out to the community and I ask them to submit some questions that they would like me to ask you. So are you ready? All righty. So Jennifer Gonzalez submitted a question. She asked, describe how you felt with the first encounter when a stranger identified you as a woman.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (00:15)
I sure am.

Maddie Taylor (00:27)
and it validated your transition and made you feel like you were on the right path.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (00:30)
You know, you're always nervous at first, but when people start using those pronouns that you desire and they give you the respect of your role as a woman or even as a man, it's pretty exhilarating.

Maddie Taylor (00:53)
Well, I know you don't need it, but I would imagine it just, it just feels good. It's like somebody being nice to you during the day. Do you need it to survive? No, you're doing this for yourself. but I got to believe it just feels good when another human being validates who you are.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (01:13)
Well, you I live in a city of tourism and so I encounter strangers multiple times every day. And, you know, the initial contact is they give you the respect as a person and as a human being. And they refer to you as what you're representing. And it's a nice feeling.

Maddie Taylor (01:31)
That's great and I think when you're confident and you own it, will, you know, they'll feel that, treat you good. Okay, Sarah Amanda Jones asked, what made you pull the trigger to fully transition?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (01:45)
Hi, Sarah. Well, I'll tell you what, as you've probably heard already now, I thought about transitioning back in 2007, but some things happened in my life and I met someone and, you know, we went from there, but there was no trigger for me. I, you know, I always felt this, I always knew this, and I had hoped in my hearts of hearts that I would, you know, be able to live.

my true self one day and when I finally had the opportunity and felt confident and had the permission, I felt that I needed it I didn't. I went for it.

Maddie Taylor (02:26)
Yeah, you're probably just waiting for the right time that there was probably several many triggers. It's just a matter of, you know, when was going to be the right time.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (02:36)
All right.

Maddie Taylor (02:38)
Okay, Heather Delish, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. She asked, what is the best advice you received on transitioning prior to transitioning?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (02:50)
Well, you know, I did a lot of my own research and I really sought out what I thought was the best of the best who could do my transitioning surgeries. And I felt, you know, I built that relationship, felt very confident about that individual. But, you know, with just the ongoing support, the community, my friends, you know, I can't say all my family members, but, you know,

People just want you to be happy and only you can make yourself happy. yeah, you know, I that's the best way I think I can answer that.

Maddie Taylor (03:27)
You know, that reminds me probably one of the most common responses to when I come out to somebody again, just as a reminder, I've most of my friends and family have come out in pictures, not necessarily in person. Most of my previous friends, but my new friends, obviously they know Maddie and, but yeah, they would, they would say, as long as you're happy, we're happy because they love you and they care about you. And I think that's a, that's a great answer.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (03:58)
Thank you.

Maddie Taylor (04:00)
Cami Richardson, I would like to know what has been your biggest challenge since you transitioned?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (04:10)
You know, I can say this as far as work, work related. You know, people don't know my past and my background, my experience levels of what I've done. So, you know, I never lost a role. mean, I still hold somewhat same role, same position, but people don't have the confidence in you.

They, you you have to, I feel like I have to prove myself all over again, you know, of what I can do and what I know, especially in my industry. But I would say it's really work related would be the toughest obstacle because, you know, it's just people, men look down on women and that's just a true fact. A lot of men do, I know. You know, I see it in this community a lot, but you know.

Maddie Taylor (04:42)
mhm.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (05:06)
You just have to prove yourself.

Maddie Taylor (05:09)
Yeah, you hear that a lot from women and now you can experience it firsthand, unfortunately, but yeah, Elizabeth Hunt would like to know how has transitioning affected your personal relationship with your family, friends, coworkers, et cetera?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (05:16)
Very true.

Well, I get along amazingly with my coworkers. We've got a great team around us and my friends. I have more friends today than I ever have had. know, and I said, it's, I think we talked about this once before. It's when, someone's happy and really truly happy with themselves, they exude this confidence. They, they have this energy around them and that people are attracted to.

And I've watched that transition part of it too, that, you know, I, I'm able to make more, you know, friends almost on a daily basis. people who I do stay in contact with, but it's, it's feels more genuine, you know, and, and we always want to hang out with each other. So it's, it's a lot of fun, you know, getting that support there. And as far as family goes, you know, not all of my family have approved and.

You know, we don't communicate any longer. Yeah, sadly to say, you know, and then, know, of course a divorce will always, make a family divisive and that's sad, but, you know, I do stay in touch with, you know, some of my kids and some family back on the Eastern, Eastern seaboard.

Maddie Taylor (06:26)
Yeah, you mentioned that's been tough.

That's good. Jacqueline, have you found that when you're being vulnerable to people and just, think you transitioning as being vulnerable, do you find that they in turn are more vulnerable with you Yeah.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (07:00)
I believe so. I believe so. My whole, my whole journey has been out here. I've shared it with the community and the support has been overwhelming. But being real and being vulnerable with them, you you see their, their vulnerabilities as well, because people, it's just, it's just an amazing energy change, an energy shift. And, know, in my spirit that I feel, and I'm just, you know,

I get euphoric every day to go out there and just enjoy your life.

Maddie Taylor (07:34)
I think it's very natural and it never really dawned on me. Maybe I did it and didn't know I was doing it, but when I did it as Maddie and I saw how people came back and were vulnerable and shared things that they'd never shared with me, people I've known for years and decades, made me realize, you know, that's how you bond with somebody. That's how you get close to somebody is.

share, you know, being vulnerable, sharing things, sharing personal things. I mean, you can become friends with somebody without getting too deep, but that friendship's not going to go any deeper. And I think that's been a nice surprise for me in Maddie's life. I've got one last one and it's from that Maddie Taylor girl. she's so inquisitive. Her question is, if you had one do -over in your life, what would that be?

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (08:27)
I would have transitioned a lot sooner to be honest with you, knowing what I know now and how I feel. but you know, I wouldn't change anything that I've done. you know, I have amazing children. You have got a huge loving family. I've got a great community and community of friends and very close friends at that. I don't like, I really can't say I regret anything.

Maddie Taylor (08:54)
Well, starting earlier sounds like, you know, if you could just wave a magic wand, but then that changes the course of a bunch of other things that may not have happened. So you're like, well, you know, I, you know, maybe it maybe it's best how it, how it was.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (09:01)
Absolutely.

That's true. Very true.

Maddie Taylor (09:12)
Well, there you have it girls. Girls want to know. Thank you, Jacqueline. I want to thank you for just being so honest and open and vulnerable. I'm confident you will help others feel like they're not the only ones going through gender dysphoria or any of the number of things we discussed. And you're an example of showing them there's a path if they so choose to take that journey. So thank you. We, we appreciate it.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (09:40)
Thank you, Matty, I really enjoyed this.

Maddie Taylor (09:43)
Alright Jacqueline, we will be talking to you later, thanks.

Jacquelyn Ophelia James (Preferred Pronouns She/Her) (09:47)
Okay, bye.

 

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